Marcel Tanner and Yves Flückiger: hand in hand for science

Interview: Astrid Tomczak-Plewka

Yves Flückiger, you took up your position as President of the Swiss Academies of Arts and Sciences in January. What burning question would you like to ask your predecessor, Marcel Tanner?

Yves Flückiger: One question is certainly about the Swiss Academies’ positioning with regard to digitalization. The Open Research Data (ORD) strategy and the topic of data exchange, for example, are very important for the entire scientific landscape in Switzerland. The year 2024 will be crucial for laying the foundations here.

Marcel Tanner: I can only confirm that. The Academies must not miss the boat in this respect. Open Science is part of our science culture, which we as Academies defend. We don’t just want to promote research, but above all the communication and implementation of scientific insights; to do so, data must be rendered usable for society and research findings be made accessible to everyone.

YF: In the current geostrategic situation, there’s a whole range of challenges associated with digitalization – such as the question of whether we really want a completely free exchange of data.

MT: Data security is sometimes taken too far in Switzerland and so is not always adapted to reality. A typical example of this was the Covid app. It was technically very good, but if data protection prohibits the app from being compulsory to download and contact notifications from having to be reported immediately, this leads to delays and incompleteness, which is bad from an epidemiological and public health perspective.  We have to ask ourselves what level of data protection is ethically justifiable from an individual and also a social perspective.

YF: Ultimately, it’s also about the level of acceptance a technological solution meets with among the population. And trust in science plays a major role here.

If you think back, Marcel Tanner, what were your ambitions when you started as President four years ago?

MT: I started out with the ambition to implement the evaluation and the strategic and structural organizational development of the Swiss Academies.  I clearly focussed here at first on our multi-year planning. I said to myself that we had to work together to achieve this, that the necessary structural changes would harmoniously result from it – and that I would be able to hand over the Academies to my successor in a good state. This is a given with the new Statutes and the adapted Organizational Regulations. And, of course, another ambition is that together we will have a sound and effective multi-year plan for 2025 to 2028 which rises to the challenges of society and politics.  The handover comes at an ideal time – during the transition from the old to the new multi-year plan.

Where do you see the future priorities, Yves Flückiger?

YF: First of all, it is of course pleasant to be able to take over this position in a stable situation, thanks to all the work Marcel Tanner has accomplished with the Board of Directors and the Management.  I regard Switzerland’s reinstatement in Horizon Europe as a priority, followed of course by the funding of the entire ERI sector for the period 2025 to 2028.  In addition, it is important for me to strengthen the attractiveness of Switzerland as a centre of science.  The country is very well-positioned in this respect, but we must not rest on our laurels. We must constantly strive to develop the infrastructure and research platforms so that Switzerland remains attractive to European and international researchers. The aim is not merely to strengthen the scientific community or the Swiss Academies of Arts and Sciences in particular, but society as a whole. Marcel Tanner has stressed this time and again, and I too would like to underline it:  our role is to support research in such a way that it addresses social issues and offers answers to these questions in a dialogue with politics and society.  We are talking about the Switzerland of tomorrow, about climate, energy and sustainability issues that need to be addressed in a multidisciplinary way. And that’s precisely where the Academies’ strength lies.

The entire ERI sector is facing severe funding cuts. What consequences do you fear if the Academies also have to operate with less funding?

MT: We are the only ERI institution that is mandated with the task of networking science and conducting early detection. We establish platforms for key topics such as energy or biodiversity, through which scientific evidence is communicated to politics and society. This is our core mission, and it must not be compromised in favour of prestigious individual projects – for which we are also mandated by the federal government.

Nevertheless, some would probably say: why do we need the Academies – we have some great universities, like ETH Zurich or EPFL.  What is your answer to that, Yves Flückiger?

YF: I think we have to use examples to demonstrate our impact.  It doesn’t mean much to the majority of the population when we say we need to strengthen the dialogue between science and society in order to make Switzerland fit for the future.  Take quantum physics, for example, where the Academies have been entrusted with the Swiss Quantum Initiative:  It feeds into three areas. With its enormous computing power, the quantum computer can, for example, help to prevent accidents, find solutions that will reduce carbon emissions, mitigate antimicrobial resistance or produce more nutritious food with fewer land resources.  Quantum communication is important for cybersecurity. It enables large companies to establish systems that are difficult to attack, and also contributes to the security of data communication between companies and individuals; and, finally, we are looking at quantum materials, which are much lighter, more resistant and more sustainable. So here we have a technology that provides answers to burning challenges. In order to train and network the specialists to do this, we need a system that promotes research and training in this area.

MT: I would like to add something:  our core mission is not simply to move into new technologies to do a short-term cost-benefit calculation or to point out risks, but rather to achieve social benefits. One example: after the Second World War, Switzerland invested billions in the Grimsel region, among others, to advance hydroelectric power. Today, the tributary of the Oberaar reservoir is surrounded by an area that is valuable from a biodiversity perspective. If the dam wall is now raised by eight metres to increase capacity, biodiversity will suffer in certain areas. When weighing up the risks and benefits, the question therefore arises of whether we can live with a loss of biodiversity at this location if we gain in terms of the resultant energy supply. If we can gain political acceptance for compensatory areas that would offset the loss, we would achieve a more positive impact on overall biodiversity in our country and would be able to raise the dam wall.  But there is resistance from the agricultural sector to compensatory areas, and we have to counter it.  Thus, we are confronted with some very complex systems. In order to understand this complexity, a multidisciplinary approach of weighing societal cost and benefit is needed. The Academies can certainly provide added value here.

YF: That brings us back to the topic of building trust. This is extremely important.

In view of the international situation, it is particularly difficult to build trust – the keywords are: the climate crisis, and the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. How can the Academies be perceived as a trustworthy player?

YF: The answer is certainly not the same for all institutions – and I’m replying here based on my experience from Geneva. We have to be open to all issues, even the most difficult ones, taking into account academic freedom, freedom of expression and red lines, such as anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and so on.  We must therefore approach these issues with mutual respect and openness. This is more important than ever, particularly in view of the crises. I was shocked when a colleague in Geneva told me he could no longer hold his seminar on water governance – which is an important topic for peacebuilding – in Gaza in view of the current situation.  I replied: on the contrary, now more than ever.  If we censor ourselves, who then will address these issues?

MT: This is precisely what the Academies’ task is: to highlight the different positions, but not against a background of promoting one position or another.  We must not engage in political activism. We can point out facts, weigh them up and categorize them.

In conclusion:  What do you wish your predecessor or successor, as appropriate?

MT: I am very pleased that Yves Flückiger recognizes the complexity of the issues and is addressing them with courage.  I hope he will take the Academies even further, together with the team, because the foundations are now in place, both structurally and functionally.

YF: I would like to thank Marcel Tanner for leaving behind such a strong organization.  I hope, or rather I know, that Marcel Tanner will continue to play the role of a wise man on whom Switzerland can always rely.